Ranks in X-wing novels
Sep. 7th, 2004 12:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
owlOne thing that annoys me, reading the X-wing books (apart from Corran 'Gary Stu' Horn, who's a major reason why I prefer Stackpole's novels), is the fact that a Captain in Starfighter Command is lower ranked than Commander.[ETA: I meant Allston, of course.]
Now Commander originates in the English Navy, where it comes between Lieutenant and Captain. If you read Hornblower or Patrick O'Brian, you'll know that a naval officer would start his career as a midshipman, pass as Lieutenant, jiggle around getting seniority until he became (Master and) Commander, with command of his own vessel, which would be a sloop (I think) rather than a ship of the line like a real Captain, the next rank up, although the Commander couls still be referred to informally as 'the captain' (of that vessel). Then you had Commodores, and the Rear and Vice Admirals about which Mary Crawford made her risqué joke, Admirals, with Admiral of the Fleet right at the top of the pile.
Like the way it started in the British forces, the starfighters and the navy in the films seem to have an affiliation with similar ranks (where else would Commander come from?), with starfighter-specific titles like Squadron Leader. The books, otoh, have:
General
Commander
Captain
Lieutenant
Flight Officer
Ouch. Five ranks does seem a narrow range to play about in, and what a tangle of naval, army and airforce terminology! Also, in the comics, was Luke not a Lieutenant Commander (cunningly addressed as Commander, to add to the confusion) until his commanding officer was killed (Derra IV springs to mind here) shortly before ESB. Consistency is not the EU's strong point, you have to admit, and probably someone somewhere along the line looked at Commanders and Lieutenant Commanders in the one book and groaned. Still, Captain<<Commander annoys me.
What ranks was Wedge supposed to be at the three films in the trilogy?
That reminds me, I would love to see the Marvel early Rogue Sqadron comics novelised. Preferably by Aaron Allston so we wouldn't have to suffer descriptions of what Corran Horn was doing in CorSec at that point.
BTW, I disclaim all responsiblity for horrible screw-ups in the description of the terrestrial, British Navy. It's late and I can't be bothered to check.
Now Commander originates in the English Navy, where it comes between Lieutenant and Captain. If you read Hornblower or Patrick O'Brian, you'll know that a naval officer would start his career as a midshipman, pass as Lieutenant, jiggle around getting seniority until he became (Master and) Commander, with command of his own vessel, which would be a sloop (I think) rather than a ship of the line like a real Captain, the next rank up, although the Commander couls still be referred to informally as 'the captain' (of that vessel). Then you had Commodores, and the Rear and Vice Admirals about which Mary Crawford made her risqué joke, Admirals, with Admiral of the Fleet right at the top of the pile.
Like the way it started in the British forces, the starfighters and the navy in the films seem to have an affiliation with similar ranks (where else would Commander come from?), with starfighter-specific titles like Squadron Leader. The books, otoh, have:
General
Commander
Captain
Lieutenant
Flight Officer
Ouch. Five ranks does seem a narrow range to play about in, and what a tangle of naval, army and airforce terminology! Also, in the comics, was Luke not a Lieutenant Commander (cunningly addressed as Commander, to add to the confusion) until his commanding officer was killed (Derra IV springs to mind here) shortly before ESB. Consistency is not the EU's strong point, you have to admit, and probably someone somewhere along the line looked at Commanders and Lieutenant Commanders in the one book and groaned. Still, Captain<<Commander annoys me.
What ranks was Wedge supposed to be at the three films in the trilogy?
That reminds me, I would love to see the Marvel early Rogue Sqadron comics novelised. Preferably by Aaron Allston so we wouldn't have to suffer descriptions of what Corran Horn was doing in CorSec at that point.
BTW, I disclaim all responsiblity for horrible screw-ups in the description of the terrestrial, British Navy. It's late and I can't be bothered to check.
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-06 11:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 12:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 12:55 am (UTC)I avoid most of the military storylines for this reason. And that I don't care.
Am so horrible.
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Date: 2004-09-07 01:30 am (UTC)They do however make it pretty clear that the ranks in Starfighter COmmand aren't the same as the ones in the Naval Command.
And there's also Major, Lt. Colonel and Colonel. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 01:43 am (UTC)Commander
Captain
Lieutenant
Flight Officer>>
Well, there may be more than five if General has different ranks like in most armies (IE Major General, Lt. General, Brigadier General, etc) and you'd think that it would be Admiral, anyway, unless in the GFFA "Admiral" only relates to officers in service on capital ships - which may be possible. Consider that there's little evidence that the Rebellion had any large force of capital ships until after Yavin - their main strength seemed to rest on their fighter forces, and it's possible that when the Mon Cal ships, etc joined the Rebellion the "big ship navy" was invented later.
*shrug* but this is just speculation on my part.
I had a similar problem in writing DOTF with ranks, I had assumed my fictional starfighter ranks would be similar to the way it is with naval aviators in the USN, and it would have made more sense to have Starfighter Command a branch of the Navy rather than the Army.
-Tim
no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 01:27 pm (UTC)I'm reading the hornblower novels now, and confusing ranks just... well, confuse me.
Star Trek faced a similar problem for a while, in treating Ensign as the lowest rank and not really establishing the differences between lieutenants and ensigns other than "I outrank you." They started trying to fix it in Voyager, but those of us used to the Napoleonic-era English navy will probably never be fully happy with the frivolous way they throw around terms.
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Date: 2004-09-07 02:32 pm (UTC)You mean "Allston's", right? :p Because Stackpole's are the ones with Corran.
As for the ranks stuff, I'm not military-savvy, so I never spent much thought on it.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 09:11 pm (UTC)Yes, I do. My brain is scrambled.
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Date: 2004-09-08 06:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-08 06:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-08 06:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-09 02:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-11 08:40 am (UTC)