Y HALO THAR WORLD

[owl]

LIE, verb intransitive, to be or become horizontal. Past LAY, passive participle LAIN, active participle LYING

LAY, verb transitive, to place in a horizontal position. Also what birds do with eggs. Past tense LAID, passive participle LAID, active LAYING.

I am so used to bands singing to people to 'lay down beside them' (being in need of an egg, one presumes) that I was startled to hear Snow Patrol actually get it right. Yay for NI linguistic conservatism.

Comments

[sue-parsons.livejournal.com]

*sings*

"If I lay here.....if I just lay here....would you lie with me and just forget the world?"

So HE lays, and SHE lies. I wonder if it's a gender thang?? Or perhaps he is pointing out that he also can't trust what she says as she lies beside him....

[persephone-kore.livejournal.com]

I figure in this case it's the structure "If I did this, would you do that?"

"If I do this, would you do that?" (In this case, "If I lie here... would you lie with me?") is not unusual, but I don't think it's actually correct.

[owl]

Past tense because it's condition, like "If I went to the cinema, would you drive me?"

[sue-parsons.livejournal.com]

I understand your reasoning, but it just sounds terribly awkward to me. My feeling was that he didn't want to write it as three "lie"s in a row within the same sentence - always a good idea to listen for that. In any case, it's one of those structures that distracts me and prevents me from just getting the lyrics' message. Pretty song, otherwise.

[owl]

I don't think it's anything to do with the number of "lie"s in the line, it's the way people here would say it. It would sound awkward to me the other way about, like saying 'If I was you'. For me it's the 'lay down beside me' construction that spoils the song.

[tree_and_leaf]

Although I think it may be partly a dialect issue. I know at least one Scots folk(ish) song which contains the suggestion 'lay you down, love'. Though of course the use of the pronoun makes it a slightly different construction (arguably, this is a third verb).

It's a good example, anyway, of word change caused by levelling - on the one hand, to differentiate from 'to lie' as in falsehood, and on the other being too lazy to remember the fine difference between two different but closely related verbs.

Though it does grate, rather.

[tree_and_leaf]

I have no idea why my comments turned out so ginormous. It's not deliberate on my part.

[owl]

Lay you down has an object, like lay the baby down, so that makes it the second verb.

[tree_and_leaf]

Excellent point. I always was rotten at grammar (or at least, the theoretical side)!

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

"Lie lady lie / Lie across my big brass bed"?

[owl]

Well, yes, that's they way I'd say it myself...