'Strong women', in Star Wars and otherwise

[owl]

I was browsing Livejournals at the weekend, and came across this post on maidenjedi's LJ.
Basically it asked for discussion on the female characters in Star Wars, and were they 'strong women'. In the comments, as well as poor opinions of the Prequel Trilogy and Lucas' film-making, there were comments such as:

What really got to me was that there was no need to introduce Beru like that. She's introduced as "my girlfriend Beru", has one line ("hello"), and she's, like, serving them blue milk! WTF?! She doesn't even live with these people!

I wonder if Beru's subjugation isn't part of Tatooine culture. It would have been interesting to see how Shmi Skywalker responded to and interacted with Clegg Lars.

Of course, the way Beru was introduced really fit with Owen's personality, which is/was domineering, short-sighted, and not a little xenophobic, IMHO. It doesn't excuse Beru's "little woman" portrayal, though.


So Beru is condemned on 30 seconds of screentime! Her character is ruined for ever because she, gasp, serves a drink to visitors who are probably tired and thirsty and are about to hear some very bad news The Larses have just been bereaved, remeber, and Cliegg lost his leg. It makes sense she'd be around to help out. Beru as far as we can tell is nurturing and feelings-orientated(F, in Myers-Briggs typology, maybe even NF). It makes perfect sense that she was the one who thought to get drinks, rather than the T Owen.
She's a frontier woman, she's married to a farmer. She's not some Stepford wife! I'm from a farming community myself, and whatever farmer's wives may be, they are not passive and spineless as a rule. Generally, as well as cooking, cleaning and child-rearing, they either hold down an outside job to supplement the farm income, or work as an unpaid farm worker (Not the very heaviest jobs, which physically a woman wouldn't be capable off, specially if she's childbearing, breast feeding or got a toddler in tow, but I have known farmer's wives keep the hens, drive tractors during silage-drawing, hand-rear lambs, feed calves, help with the milking, get up in the middle of the night during calving, as well as catering for vets, employees and contractors.) It's not an easy job, and it's just as important as the farmer's itself.

I have a great fondness for Owen and Beru. They are under-rated, maligned, ignored and ill-characterised by the fandom at large. We don't see much of them onscreen, but we do see their life's work, so to speak: Luke Skywalker. He is emotionally stable (consider what he goes through in the OT and still retains sanity and humanity), loving and compassionate to a fault, humble, unselfish, and is willing to sacrifice himself for his family. Tell me how someone could grow up like that without having been loved, and loved well.


Leia got off a little better, but:

Leia post-RotJ (and even, I think, to a great extent in RotJ) is pretty soft as well.

Leia very quickly loses her rough edges, becomes scarily domesticated by Ep VI. And for me the disconcerting thing - even as a kid - was that while she is Anakin's offspring as much as Luke is, she's never really brought into the whole destiny thing.

And watch as the entire point Leia's character arc in the OT is missed. She and Han were in ANH both cut off from love in differnet ways; Han by his selfishness, Leia by her idealism and single focus on the rebel cause. They grow together during the trilogy.

Padmé got off badly too, due to having the misfortune to fall in love with a future Sith Lord. The black corset affair was much debated, but as I don't have a baldy what Padmé was playing at by wearing it, I shall leave that issue alone.

As for the EU:

I haven't read any Star Wars books, but I've played a lot of the video games. Women in those seem to always be "fighters" of some type, fighting alongside your character or others. Jedi Knight has female Jedis fighting with you, which is pretty cool. Episode II showed that women are bounty hunters/assasins just like men.


Mara Jade was phenomenally strong is most of the books I'd read, and I remain a fan. Can't speak to her NJO incarnation, but I do think she was one of the best done female characters in the EU. She worked especially well due to her independence from *any* of the organizations.


Oh, spare us. I don't consider Mara Jade a strong woman at all. Emotionally, she's brittle. Perhaps that looks superficially like strong to some, including the attitude from hell. She has no 'feminine' characteritics whatsoever. Someone propsed the fact that Zahn was writing her as a male substitute, to allow him to have Luke in a slash relationship without having Lucasfilm kill him, and I have to say it makes sense. She's certainly the dominating partner in the LEUke/Mara marriage.
As for the 'fighters': Why can a woman only be considered 'strong' if she's exactly like the stereotype of a man? That's just as demeaning as keeping her barefoot in the kitchen. There is nothing wrong with being able to take care of yourself, it's positive, but why is it considered 'weak' to have stereotypically female characteristics like caring for one's family, having a nurturing personality, even being able to cook? I think that all human beings should have both 'masculine' and 'feminine' characteristics to some degree. The macho macho macho man and the giggling inept female are both incomplete charicatures of humanity. I find it odd that certain feminists, while despising men, attempt to make women into the image of a man.

*uses ironically appropriate 'nice men' icon*

Comments

You are GOD!

[affabletoaster.livejournal.com]

Allow me to profess undying (and totally heterosexual) love to you. *prostrates self at your feet* These are the three most often mis-analyzed women in the Star Wars saga. If only all fans were as smart as we two. Please tell me there are others.

[ladylisse.livejournal.com]

The macho macho macho man and the giggling inept female are both incomplete charicatures of humanity. I find it odd that certain feminists, while despising men, attempt to make women into the image of a man.

This is interesting to me because I feel that I'm often guilty of it. I act stereotypically "male" a lot of the time, and as such my female characters are often like that too. I think that in a lot of circles there is a tendency to sneer at women who do fit into certain feminine roles, just like in other circles a woman doesn't belong outside the home. There's a balance in there, and since to a great extent I write what I know, I feel like I haven't really found that balance.

That being said, what the shit? Dude, who are these people? Star Wars was the first movie and first fandom I found where the women actually did stuff. Leia was my hero -- and frankly, with that temper I'm not surprised she wasn't the Jedi. And while I freely admit I have a ton of trouble getting into Beru's head, she's one of the strongest characters in the series, male or female. So is Owen. Luke would have been shit out of luck if he'd been raised by almost anyone else.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

You make a lot of valid points about dismissing woman as strong for showing nurturing, stereotypically "feminine" characteristic. I'm right there with you on Padmé and while I don't think Beru is terribly interesting in AotC (see her novelization comments about never leaving Tatooine), I think calling her a weak character is an inaccurate generalization. We frankly don't know enough about her, and meek seeming girl turning into no-nonsense Aunt seems as reliable an interpretation as any. Characters don't have to *start* strong, since sometimes that's what the journey is about. Not that Beru has one.

On the other hand, as far as Mara goes I consider her a wildly damaged woman in the original Zahn trilogy who eventually gets over her issues. Is she not particularly nurturing? Yeah. Is she domineering (not that I consider that unfeminine)? Yeah. Does that make her not feminine? Meh. I don't really know and I don't really care. Why? Because she doesn't exist in a vacuum. Within the Zahn books there are also Leia, Mon Mothma, and Winter (as well as that smuggler whose name I forget) - who are show differing forms of strength.

So perhaps you see Mara as unfeminine. If that were the only model of "female" strength given out by Zahn I would probably be offended by her, too. However, she isn't. She's not a female herione. She's just a character, and her characterization - given what she has been through - makes sense to me. She copes with a lot of trauma, a lot of darkness, and comes through an ally. That makes her strong in my book. We already established that she's a woman (on account of the pronouns ;)). Boom. Strong woman.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

As for the 'fighters': Why can a woman only be considered 'strong' if she's exactly like the stereotype of a man? That's just as demeaning as keeping her barefoot in the kitchen. There is nothing wrong with being able to take care of yourself, it's positive, but why is it considered 'weak' to have stereotypically female characteristics like caring for one's family, having a nurturing personality, even being able to cook? I think that all human beings should have both 'masculine' and 'feminine' characteristics to some degree. The macho macho macho man and the giggling inept female are both incomplete charicatures of humanity. I find it odd that certain feminists, while despising men, attempt to make women into the image of a man.

Good points, Cat. That's basically what I'm thinking. Not being able to cook is also a weakness, after all. ;-)

Cadence also has good points:

On the other hand, as far as Mara goes I consider her a wildly damaged woman in the original Zahn trilogy who eventually gets over her issues. Is she not particularly nurturing? Yeah. Is she domineering (not that I consider that unfeminine)? Yeah. Does that make her not feminine? Meh. I don't really know and I don't really care. Why? Because she doesn't exist in a vacuum. Within the Zahn books there are also Leia, Mon Mothma, and Winter (as well as that smuggler whose name I forget) - who are show differing forms of strength.

So perhaps you see Mara as unfeminine. If that were the only model of "female" strength given out by Zahn I would probably be offended by her, too. However, she isn't. She's not a female herione. She's just a character, and her characterization - given what she has been through - makes sense to me. She copes with a lot of trauma, a lot of darkness, and comes through an ally. That makes her strong in my book. We already established that she's a woman (on account of the pronouns ;)). Boom. Strong woman.

Yeah. The way I see it, there's many shades of 'feminine'. There's women who are very sweet and gentle and maternal, there's tough-a** women who are as emotionally closed-up as one would normally only expect of males (Mara would fall into that category), there's all kinds of shades in between. Now who has the right to tell any of these women that she's not a "real" female? IMHO, no one. If you have ovaries, you're a woman (unless you're transgendered, but that's another subject altogether). Feel free to disagree, but I don't see 'femininity' as something you have to work for or 'earn' through a certain kind of behavior. (At this point, I could insert a rant about how society makes women believe that they do have to 'work for' their femininity, in order to elicit a certain behavior and/or sell products (such as pretty clothes, cosmetics, kitchen appliances for the 'good housewife' - you name it), but this post is getting long enough as it is. ;-) )

[leeflower.livejournal.com]

HFS, you ROCK.

Why can a woman only be considered 'strong' if she's exactly like the stereotype of a man?

I got into a long discussion about this with someone at Balticon, and the idea of a female who's strength came from a different place than masculinity is what prompted my biggest SW project (never to see the light of day for lack of decent writing and speedy betas).

Writing a paper on this very subject for my english class. Star Wars is actually one of my examples.

...and I agree with you wholeheartedly on Mara Jade. the fact that she acts like a man doesn't make her strong. She annoys my pants off. What a freakin' Mary-Sue.

And think about it: during the OT, who's one of the most influencial people in the galaxy? Mon Mothma. Mon Mothma, with her long white dress, graceful way of doing just about everything (I believe the woman could even FART gracefully), and soft, high suprano, who never issues one sarcastic wisecrack or so much as touches a weapon. Ok, well, I was going somewhere with that...

And look at Padme in ep I. What's our very first impression of her? "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."
And I'm sorry, I don't care how manly you are, you'de be nurturing and motherly if surrounded by a bunch of walking teddy bears. It's an evolutionary response. Besides, think about it: You're on a space station with two of the most powerful men in the regime you're trying to overthrow, while they've got a superweapon trained on your home planet, and you're probably about to die. Are YOU going to be brave enough to accuse one of them of smelling foul?

...mind if I cite you as a source for my paper?

[maidenjedi]

I'm leaving Beru alone, because I don't think she was as much a force in Luke's life as Owen was. Owen clearly dominates in that household; what that says about Beru is up for debate. Consider that Lucas' women (including Mara Jade) are all pretty badass until they hook up with a guy, and there's a point for discussion.

Now, Mara Jade. First of all, there is no reason, in the original Zahn incarnation, for her to be the least bit "feminine". She survived the *Emperor*, which is more than most everyone (including Anakin) can say. But beyond that, consider her upbringing and her situation. She's a Force-sensitive who doesn't have Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda looking after her, but a Sith Lord with a galaxy at his command. A Sith Lord who hoodwinked the vaunted Jedi Council before revealing himself and killing the Jedi off. That's power, and it's scary power. Mara Jade was brought up and trained with one agenda: to take out Luke Skywalker. She has no reason to have any feminine affectations.

I take real objection to the idea that a woman who cooks is not a "strong" or "real" woman. But in a fictional universe that promotes multiculturism and is constantly reminding us where prejudice gets us, equality between the sexes seems imperative. The only excuse for Beru's docile, subjective nature is basic cultural anthropology (she has no authority in Luke's life, that's very clear, so while I'm sure she was quite loving and very much the farmer's wife, I wonder what kind of husband Luke might have made had he never gone chasing after Leia). Beru is only one example of the women in the Star Wars universe; you point out in detail that she's a farmer's wife, she lives on a frontier, and therefore she's going to be a very different type of woman than Padme and Leia (brought up with the idea that women can and should be instrumental in governing and decision-making) or Mara Jade (brought up without female influence, under a violent and demanding father-figure).