A bit of Potter-rant

[owl]

fernwithy's latest entry, on subversive readings, prompted me to post this.

It really annoys me when people say that Dumbledore is amoral and manipulative, and the Weasleys are abusive or bad parents, while at the same time the Malfoys are the perfect family.

GAH! Yes, the Weasleys aren't perfect, Dumbledore has faults, MWPP were capable of bullying at fifteen, but that doesn't make them bad through and through. I think it's obvious from JKR's writing and interviews where her love lies. Then of course you get the people whinging that 'I can write better than Rowling! She doesn't know what to do with her own characters!'

One person I saw recently saying she hated James and Sirius since OotP. But yet she's a huge Draco fan. She was greatly offended by the recent JKR interview where she said that 'girls like Tom Felton and confuse him with Draco', or somesuch. What is there about Draco that's more likeable than James and Sirius? Draco's capable of the sme sort of bullying as the Snivellus incident--he has Leg-lockered Neville and expanded Hermione's teeth (encouraged by his teacher, the petty...grr). He has carried out a dangerous and potentially fatal 'prank' a la Sirius (Harry falls off his broom when he sees Dementors, let's dress up as Dementors! He had no way of knowing about the Patronus), and on several occasions has expressed pleasure at the thought of the demise of Harry and his friends.

And James and Sirius have shown themselves capable of self-sacrifice, love and courage, unlike Draco.

Now, I'm not saying that Draco isn't an interesting character, because I think he is, in his glorious screwed-up pettiness and malice. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be improved in canon. But how is he so much better than MWPP, the Weasleys, Harry and Dumbledore?

Comments

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

I don't think many people are actually saying that Draco and the Malfoys are better than Dumbledore, MWPP and the Weasleys, but there is a huge great disconnect between what you hear JKR saying about her characters and how she actually writes them(and you are quite right; you say I think it's obvious from JKR's writing and interviews where her love lies. Part of the problem is that when she is talking about characters she comes over as infuriatingly partisan, almost blind to the faults of Gryffindors. Now, she may well be setting up a huge great misdirection here but she hasn't left herself a lot of time for the denouement if so.

But if you actually look at what the Gryffindors do as opposed to the values they espouse they have, actually, canonically, been responsible for much worse deeds than we have ever seen any Slytherin of school age perform. Actually, in terms of wizard-on-Muggle violence, Gryffindors of any age outscore Slytherins of any age by a serious and noticeable margin.

I mean, take the Dursleys. They treat Harry abominably, true. But the root cause of their treating Harry abominably is fear. And why not? I don't know what James was like by the time he was introduced to Petunia, but all Remus and Sirius say about him was that he'd "cleaned up his act around Lily" suggesting that he didn't actually improve much. Anyway, from Petunia's pov, what she first knows about magic is that it killed her sister (and yes; Voldemort was a Slytherin but it took a Gryffindor to get him close enough to land the fatal blow). I think it tells you a lot about the qualities of "self-sacrifice, love and courage" dsiplayed by MWPP that when James was betrayed, each of Remus and Sirius genuinely believed that the other had done it, and the third of these four devoted friends actually had done it.

Their next encounter with an adult wizard (Gryffindor) puts a pig's tail on their son, which has to be surgically removed. Dudley is a wart, but grown men physically humiliating and abusing children is bad news in my book.

We get up to Goblet of Fire and the twins get in on the act. Ton tongue toffee is not funny; it's potentially lethal (would be lethal without a wizard on hand to reverse the effects) and its use is designed to cause pain, fear and humiliation.

During Phoenix we see the twins also stealing Dark Artifacts from a house where they are guests, acquiring "Doxy venom", testing potentially dangerous potions on unwarned younger children and generally behaving like out-of-control hooligans. No-where does anyone pull them up for their atrocious behaviour.

I would go on about the diabolical way Neville gets treated (Canary creams, full body bind etc etc)but I expect my views on Neville are well-known.

So I think the frustration with JKR is that there is all this wonderful textual evidence in plain sight that things are not as simple as it appears (look at the denoument of POA if you want to understand why people regard Dumbledore as amoral, btw: "My dear Harry; your father's best friend; your only link with your wizarding family and the only hope you have of escape from the abusive home life I insisted on saddling you with 14 years ago is facing a fate infinitely worse than death. Despite being the president of the Wizangemot and the country's representive on the international council of warlocks, to say nothing of the most powerful wizard the world has known for a hundred years, I propose to do nothing to save him. Instead, i expect you and your best friend to break a large number of laws and risk your own lives and sanity to rescue him. Oh, and you're only at this school on my say-so, you having already done more than enough to get yourself expelled on any normal application of the rules. But no pressure, Harry!")

But every time you get her in an interview she behaves as if a red and gold scarf allows one to get away with murder - literally.

"Gryffindors are Slytherins with better PR"

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Young Sirius and James actually remind me a lot of Draco - they were, to a large degree, arrogant bullies, just like he is. And Draco might well have his good qualities (he seems to be a devoted son, for instance, as misguided as that devotion may be, considering his father's evilness), it's just that those sides of him are rarely - if ever - shown "on page".

The only aspect (well, apart from the good qualities that he also has) in which Sirius was better than Draco is that he wasn't conceited about his "noble heritage", even though he was just as pureblooded.

That seems to be the difference between the Gryffs and Slyths - the Slytherins (as portrayed by JKR) pick on those who are poor (like the Weasleys) or lacking "blood purity"; the Gryffindor just pick on anyone they feel like picking on, whenever they feel like picking on them. So, is one really that much better than the other? Sure, racism and classism is evil; but is it okay to be a bully just as long as you aren't a racist/prejudiced bully?

Re: "Gryffindors are Slytherins with better PR"

[ex-ajhalluk585.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't even necessarily say they pick on anyone who is poor; it's just that when they pick on the Weasleys, their poverty is the characteristic they choose. Which is unpleasant, true. But if there are poor Slytherins on the Slytherin house team (and there may well be) at least they're playing on decent brooms; unlike the poor Gryffindors.

Re: "Gryffindors are Slytherins with better PR"

[owl]

Yes, but I was saying 'why do people love Draco and hate James and Sirius when they act in much the same way?' Sirius' childhood was at least as screwed up as Draco's in the way of bigotry; James probably was as spoiled.
And Sirius was just 'not conceited' about his purebloodedness, he got out of the whole Dark arts milieu of his family. Why not go into the DEs, making mummy approve of him again?

Re: "Gryffindors are Slytherins with better PR"

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

I agree that Sirius deserves a lot of kudos for having the strength and the insight to reject his family's evil ways. It's one major reason why I do love him despite his faults.

And James wasn't just a bully, he was also the brave man who died trying to protect his family.

I was just concentrating on their bad side in my post, not saying that this bad side was all that was to them. And I don't hate Sirius and James for things I'd excuse in Draco, for that matter.

Re: "Gryffindors are Slytherins with better PR"

[owl]

And James wasn't just a bully, he was also the brave man who died trying to protect his family.

Yes. We haven't seen Draco do anything even vaguely selfless. I'm not saying he's not capable of it, though I think there's a large amount of Slytherin self-preservation instinct to be overcome first, but currently there's no evidence that he is.

I was just concentrating on their bad side in my post, not saying that this bad side was all that was to them. And I don't hate Sirius and James for things I'd excuse in Draco, for that matter.


My point exactly. Why hate James and Sirius for behaviour you condone or excuse in Draco? Personally I don't hate any of them. I love snotty bigoted Death-Eater-in-training canon Draco, and I do think he had a rotten start.

[owl]

Oh, I don't like the twins; I think they need a good kick up the backside. Clever, but no sense and no respect for anyone else's feelings (poor Neville)
I don't really count Hagrid 'grown man' anyway; he's mantally not any older than the Trio. I always considered the 'leave it up to Harry' as story-neccessity; if Harry did what Hermione's always telling him to and went to the grwnups, the story would be a lot shorter.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

no respect for anyone else's feelings

I know, I know... It's just very hard for me to hate them when they're so - Jansonesque.

[owl]

Ooh, yes, they are a little like. But even more thoughtless and insensitive. Janson's pranks are generally harmless. (Depends on your definition of 'harmless' I suppose...)

[captainbianca.livejournal.com]

I agree. I for one can not understand where all the Draco adoration and love comes from. I can understand people's fascination with him because he is a extremely interesting character. But I certainly do not think he will redeem himself. Draco love annoys me. Especially if someone hates Ron, but loves Draco. No sense in this world. No sense at all.

[owl]

Wordity word! Poor Ron. I love ron because he's just such a normal teenage boy. Not special like Harry, or smart like Hermione (though he's certainly not stupid), not spoiled rotten like Draco, just a boy. And I think that's why some people don't like him--they think he's 'boring'.

[captainbianca.livejournal.com]

I love Ron. He's my favorite character. I'm waiting for him to do something so awesomely special it will put all Ron haters to shame.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

the Malfoys are the perfect family

Who says that? I'm much more familiar with Malfoycest[1] and Abused!Draco-fic.


[1]Familiar in the sense of "knowing it exists", that is - I don't go out of my way to read that stuff.

[owl]

I've actually heard people say 'the Malfoys are better parents than the Weasleys' because Lucius buys the team brooms and complains about the Hippogryff incident. Never mind that he's off passing a demon diary to an eleven-year-old and attempting murder of teenagers, because he looks out for his own son, that makes it all good.

[lady-suzuran.livejournal.com]

'the Malfoys are better parents than the Weasleys' because Lucius buys the team brooms and complains about the Hippogryff incident

*snerk*

Really, that's part of the problem with the Malfoys - fanon clouds canon. Draco is the poster child of this, and it can be disheartening to those who actually like his bratty self.

I love ron because he's just such a normal teenage boy.

*nods* I agree. I used to be neutral about him, but I've developed a soft spot for him, no doubt due to Ginny's influence, who I really like. Being a sidekick means he's shoved aside in favor of the hero, but it's because of that that he's such a strong character to identify with. Not all of us are extremely talented or walking encyclopedias. :)

Who says that? I'm much more familiar with Malfoycest[1] and Abused!Draco-fic.

Word. Where would fanon explanation about Draco's *ahem* rudeness be without Abused! Draco? :p

[chickadilly.livejournal.com]

Excuse me while I pass out on the floor from drooling over your icon!

*fans self*

XD

Your name sounds familar to me ... are you from Soul of the Jedi??? I haven't been there in a while but I'm pretty sure that's where I've seen you. :D

[lady-suzuran.livejournal.com]

Excuse me while I pass out on the floor from drooling over your icon!

That icon gets that a lot. ;)

And yes, Chickadilly! I'm Jedi Suzuran from SOTJ and the Mara Jade Hater's Club. Remember me? :)

[chickadilly.livejournal.com]

Wow, there's a lot of really interesting and well thought out discussion in this thread (*nice to see in any fandom*) and I want to respond but right now I just don't have the time. So I will try to keep it in mind and respond sometime in the next day or so.

In the meantime ... you rock. :D